Ledge Idea for Rivals 2

I originally posted this idea one year ago (11/20/2022) as a thread on Twitter. The idea is for solving game design problems that are caused by the presence of ledges in indie platform fighting game Rivals 2. Here it is compiled as a single post (with slight edits and additions now that I am not restricted by Twitter’s character limit):

I’ve had this idea regarding ledges in Rivals 2 for a while now, and everyone who I’ve told this to directly has liked the idea, so I thought I would post it publicly to see what people think. I’ll provide some context to explain why it works 👇

What we know of Rivals 2: Grabs and shields are added -> because of this, ledges are added -> because of this, wall jump after up special is removed. Ledges operate Melee-style (hogging). Everything is, of course, subject to change. We don’t actually have our hands on the game yet.

Let’s dive into WHY the developers made this thread of design changes. Grabs and shields deepen neutral. This is a goal for Rivals 2. But implementing shields without ledge means you can run up to the edge of the stage and hold shield to safely punish players returning to stage with their up special.

There is not a lot of nuance in this situation and has clear issues. Thus, the developers added ledges to offer a safer/alternative stage recovery option.

With the addition of ledges, and the carrying over of wall jump from Rivals 1, you now have another issue. Players can now freely edgeguard opponents by repeatedly threatening ledge and wall jumping over and over. Players who are trying to return to stage have no way back.

So the developers removed the ability to use up special after wall jump, making it pretty much impossible to go for repeat, safe, and deep edgeguards.

Now let’s jump into the main issues with these changes players have voiced. The big thing players have issue with is the removal of wall jumping after up special. This is a great decrease from the expression, nuance, and free flow of offstage play that people enjoyed in Rivals 1. With this change, it appears that recovering to stage in Rivals 2 is much more linear and recovery paths will be much less diverse.

Additionally, it is widely accepted that ledges themselves are a very centralizing mechanic in games where they are present. Many players expressed distaste in having the gameplay situations that arise from ledges present in Rivals 2. So, what is my idea?

My idea is that grabbing ledge becomes a resource, in the same way air dodge is a resource. You only get one (or however many) ledge grabs before you have to refresh by landing on stage. You can also choose when to grab ledge by pressing the grab button in the air while near it.

Firstly, this solves the issue of players being able to repeatedly threaten ledge while edgeguarding by capping the amount of times ledge can be grabbed while offstage. At the same time, this means that wall jumping after up special can be added back into the game.

Secondly, by giving players the option to choose whether to grab ledge, rather than forcing them, it lessens their centralizing nature and gives players more ways to mix up their recoveries. This adds to the nuance of offstage gameplay from Rivals 1, rather than taking away from it.

Do you think this could work? Let me know what you think! Maybe this design has a glaring flaw I overlooked or presents new unforeseen issues. PS Dan and Trevor if you see this and want to use it feel free to 😉

July 1st 2024 Update:

A couple months ago I was discussing the topics of ledges and game design with Yosi, the developer of the Platform Fighter Engine, and I mentioned this idea for ledges. Without me even asking, he whipped up a quick build implementing this idea into the game! He gave me permission to upload the build and link it here. There is currently no input buffer for grabbing ledge, nor a visual indicator that the ledge can be grabbed, but it is a good first prototype for the idea. I recommend playing it if you are interested.